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Author Topic: Pathfinder interest?  (Read 7363 times)

Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2014, 08:45:03 AM »

Okay, what if I just added to things that are already there, like let the ranger do like the Hunter and change his favored opponents by restudying, set up traps and the like? Also I kinda need the Ranger not to have spellcasting because the dwarves can't be spellcasters and I wanted a ranger-like class for the dwarves, though I guess they could just be fighter-rogues...

What about adding Iron Heroes style abilities to martial classes to let them match up to spellcasting classes somewhat? SPecifically a store of hero point and a set list of abilities, if you've been into either Iron Heroes, Arcana Evolved, or the Dragon Age RPG's Dragon Dice crit ability you'd know the type of abilities I want, just a bit more D&D style. High level would involve gaining a very temporary damage or magic resistance, low level would involve a swift action kick to the midsection of your target to unbalance them and give you a bonus/them a penalty on your next attack.

And of course I need the spells I mentioned, the spell sequencers, triggers, and contingencies, based on existing Pathfinder abilities preferably to make them balanced. THis should preferably involve an expensive material component or focus.

Monk... I don't know, I don't think the replacement I came up with is anywhere near balanced (too much damage negation), and Monk or martial arts just doesn't entirely fit in. If we can't work over the one I have I'm inclined to just disallow the class for being inappropriate to the setting.

I like the idea that humans get bastard swords as martial weapons, I'm going to go with that. Humans not having any wepaon proficiencies like all the others had seemed odd. Eschew Materials however I'm inclined to ban for any class that doesn't gain them for free (socrerers mainly), as I like the idea of wizards rubbing some cotton to toss magic missiles and using bat guano and sulfur to cast a fireball. It just adds a bit more to the whole wizard thing.
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Bishop

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2014, 10:31:56 AM »

Quote
Rangers without spellcasting

As I said, material exists for these types of optional rules.  For D&D3.5, "Complete Warrior" p.13 outlines details for Paladins and Rangers to "give up" their spell castings (I'm pretty sure there are other changes/variants out there, but I'm fabricating the publication for you in the spoiler):
Spoiler: Spell-less Ranger Variant • show

Fast Movement (Ex): At 6th level, the ranger's base land speed increase by 10 feet.  [Benefit] only applies when he is wearing no armor, Light Armor, or Medium Armor and not carrying a heavy load.
Nature's Blessing (Su): At 11th level and higher, the ranger can use a Standard Action to add +4 bonus to either Con, Dex, or Wis.  Usable Once per Day, lasts 1 minute per ranger class level.
Healing Touch (Sp): 1/Day, a ranger of 13th level or higher can use either "Neutralize Poison" or "Remove Disease" with a Caster level = 1/2 Ranger class levels.
Freedom of Movement (Sp): at 16th level or higher, the ranger can use "Freedom of Movement" on himself Once per Day, caster level = 1/2 Ranger class levels


There are also variants that sacrifice the Animal Companion (for both systems) and Terrain bonuses (Pathfinder only)

And speaking of Pathfinder, "Trapper" is an example class variant that exchanges Ranger spellcasting for making Traps (See the "Trap" ability in the link for details).  It reminds me alot of the World of Warcraft MMO version of Hunter, but I digress...

Quote
Iron Heroes

I've only ever played Iron Heroes once - was actually on these boards :)  It's system was based on Low- to No-Magic  IIRC, so adding abilities like Tokens and Class Defense bonuses would become unbalancing at varying levels of play if you're going to get heavy on spellcasters.  IronHeroes also gave out Feats like Oprah - and their Feat Trees were amazing.

That's not to say you cannot use them, or their Trait bonuses as well...  I remember that being the coolest part.

Spoiler: More Personal Experience • show

Before 4e came out, I had a hard time trying to split my Paladin of Tyranny's stats evenly - to have a high enough Strength to wear the heaviest armor and deal the most direct-melee combat damage in a "tank" role, then save enough points to come up with a decent amount in Saves and skills.

Since Charisma was the primary proponent for Diplomacy and Intimidate, as well as the Divine Grace and Smite class features, I did some research in Iron Heroes and was granted permission to spend a Feat on the "half-Feat" Traits  (I spent my bonus Human feat on "Weapon Bond" to wield a Bastard Sword AND use my Charisma for attack/damage, plus "Stubborn" to increase my Will saves and avoid temptation/manipulation).

Coupled with Action Point feats and Dragonmark feats from the Ebberon Campaign setting, my character was very successful in either talking or hacking his way out of situations.


Taking bits from other settings is good, and I would encourage it with the cavaat that you be mindful of the full details of what you're including.  (I'm pretty sure you are already doing that... I just want to politely remind you) 
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2014, 11:22:53 AM »

No I'm not adding class defense bonus or the like, nor the damage reduction from armor that Iron Heroes gives, that would be unbalanced quick, I just want to give fighters, barbarians and rogues a little extra to be able to compete at high levels and have some more options other than "hit the guy hard" or "hit the guy harder" as honestly most useful abilities comes out to against the majority of foes. Things like rogue tricks, enhanced acrobatics, a rogue swinging from a chandelier, etc, or a fighter acting like a tank type and taunting his targets into focusing on him, backing up into a corner, raising a shield to protect himself and hunkering down as the goblins swarm around him, then a wizard tosses a fireball at the fighter, fighter stays behind the shield and avoids most of the damage, goblins who were crowded around him get fried, and meanwhile the rogue is dueling the chieftain and keeping him occupied, and the Cleric has cast a linked spell (or possibly used a feat) that lets him cast healing spells and buffing spells with a range of touch on the fighter and/or rogue as they need it as well as to monitor their health and still stay back. That's the kind of tactics I want to open up, without three of those things needig a bunch of different classes and prestige classes to pull off. Some of them will just be abilites inherent in existing class features, others will be new class features, others again will be feats and spells.

Other things I want is tattoo magic, the ability of a wizard to via a feat inscribe magical tattoos on characters that have one of two effects, either they work like persistent magic effects like a magic item that doesn't take any space but can be dispelled, or you touch them and they act like if you basically had a one-use scroll inscribed on you. I don't know if anything like that already exists. Further more I want true name magic, and the Tome of Magic version was really bad, I want to have the opion to adopt a true name in a naming ceremony, this gives you various abilities (the naming ceremony will let you take a feat which in turn lets you take other slightly above average exclusive feats) but if a mage found out your true name he could target you with spells as if he had a very good familiarity with you getting a save penalty. Magical beings such as demons and dragons have true names as well, and a Planar Ally spell inscribed with a truename of the being you want to call results in a more powerful summon of a specific creature, and inscribed on a gate allows you to summon named unique beings normally not summonable like a demon prince (that doesn't mean you can control them necessarily, just that you can summon them). I also want to include Invocations, which was also touched on in tome of Magic but done really badly (really that book just isn't any good), where you contact and pledge your service as a mage to powerful magical beings who in turn give your spells powers when you invoke them by calling out their name, such as one being giving you better spell penetration when you invoke him, another making your spell cast at a higher caster level. THese things however require your services in return, requiring you to for example sacrifice magical items or even living beings to them, and others may have plots like revenge on someone on the material plane that they use the mage to carry out.

Blood magic is another thing I want to include, there was a Blood Magus prestige class but I didn't like it, it had some cool ideas but I want to use others. For example Arcana Evolved has a feat where you sacrifice I think 6 hit poitns of damage per spell level (so 18 hit points for a 3rd level spell) and be able to cast it without expending the spell slot. I want that to be the keystone in a blood magic caster list, taking it gives you access to other feats and spells of various levels like a Blood Wound, an area wounding effect that causes instant damage + bleed, blood control that's a compulsion ability like a domination spell but better, as well as a Blood Rune you inscribe on a follower or companion like that healthy barbarian that allows you to injure them to heal yourself, generally getting half again as much health back as you inflict, good for healing up after spending health on powering spells. The Blood Mage prestige class can play some part here, and the feat that allows you to spend health to power spells can be made a prerequisite for that.

As this is a very spirit based world where there are nature spirits everywhere and spirits in everything (undead are spirits posessing dead bodies, golems are spirits forced into inanmate forms by the creator [which in turn means that the difference between a flesh golem and a zombie is very low, a flesh golem is just a well put together masterwork zombie], etc) so I want some spells based on that. True20 had a spell called Beneficial Posession where you allow a spirit inside you that grants you a power but can take you over and do things against your will. I want a prestige class based around summoning and calling upon spirits and their power, I want spells and magic items based on spirits (an intelligent magical sword that has a speciifc spirit inside it for example), etc. Druids will play some into this as they know the natural spirits the best and can commune with them and entice them into doing things.

Ritual magic is another thing I want, a spell that you cast as a ritual over at least a minute but probably hours to even days, it can include just a single mage/priest/druid doing so, or the mage and his apprentices or a grove of druids and a priest and his congregation chanting for their god, these are all ritual spells. Ritual spells allow for higher effects of exisiting spells, enabling you to make spells permanent with a lesser cost and greater effect than the Permanency spell, it can include calling upon a Miracle spell when there's no cleric present capable of casting it, or a grove of druids changing weather patterns or enticing a grove to change, or when making a new powerful undead make sure its' created with more hit dice and turning resistance. Magical places will play some part here, if you do a ritual in a magical place (like the site of a great magical battle, a dragon's ancient lair, near a sacred tree, a place where a prophet bled to death, etc) your ritual works better, and if you sacrifice things (from a magic item to gold and precious items, to livestock to your lover for a really unholy ritual) that also lends powers to the rituals. Adept's Handbook for True20 has rules for all of these, and I want to translate them over to d20.

If any of these already exist in some form in d20 I'll gladly use them if they're well done (which as said large parts of Tome of Magic just isn't), otherwise I will make new rules for them. I am fairly experienced at this and have made entire systems from scratch before, and know when something is unbalanced (which I know that Monk replacer is). I'd welcome most suggestions to changing things I come up with but I won't be happy with just uisng things that are already there just because they're published in a book somewhere, that doesn't necessarily make them superior (though to be fair, the majority of published stuff from large publishers is superior stuff simply for being worked on my multple experienced people), and if I don't like it I will make my own stuff.
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Bishop

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2014, 10:10:40 PM »

Quote
Tome of Magic

That was my next reference to all that, but if you got it, there's not much else that needs to be said :)

I haven't seen much for PF in that regard (I own Ultimate Magic, and a variety of other content, but haven't gone thru all of it to see if they did any "blood" and "pact" changes.  They do have eidilons however...)



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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2014, 11:09:36 PM »

Okay at this point I need to check, who are still interested in this game, tons of houserules and changes and all? Because obviously it's a lot of work to make a believable fantasy setting, believe it or not more work than the multiple worlds and galaxies I'd make for the M&M fantasy game because of the style (this needs to be more detailed, because more time is going to be spent in the same places, and general 'laws of reality' can't really change from place to place as they could in a Sword & Planet game, so everything needs to be established and working together and coherent from level 1-20 and beyond). The rules set as well needs a lot of work to make sure everything sticks together and is balanced, and that's a lot of work as well. So I need to know I have players interested for this before proceeding.

I need about three players to make this work, max six I figure.
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Requiem

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2014, 11:15:49 PM »

Assuming this is still a month or two off from happening, I'm in. If nothing else, I'm interested to see how everything looks once it's all put together more or less.
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Bishop

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2014, 11:44:05 AM »

I'm still on the fence - there's a LOT of extra content and changes that you've outlined so far... so much so that it's like learning a whole new game.

If you need extra meat for the grinder, I don't mind filling in.  A non-essential role to start getting more players aboard.
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2014, 06:03:23 PM »

Still don't know if I acutally have the players to run this, but presuming Cyclone joins (given it was his idea originally) I have three players wihich is a bare-bones party but works, I'll just keep adding stuff here.

Trolls

After the war that drove out the evil races and enslaved the remainign orcs over a hundred years ago, people hoped that they would see an end to raids by beast races. That turned out not to be the case, as trolls turned out to be uttelry impossible to get rid of entirely, and the high elven mages seemed unable or unwilling to permanently wipe them out with some spell like they'd almost done to the goblins.

Trolls come in many varieties, so big that most don't believe that all who fall under the 'troll' category are of the same racial group. However their unifying feature is that they all propagate by leaving 'spores' behind, tiny little things that grow into new trolls.

Swamp Trolls are among the most feared ones generally, they look like hideous half-melted beings that shouldn't be alive. Their main feature is that they heal at an incredible rate, any wound done to a swamp troll has to be fire or acid or it will heal from it, decapitate a troll without using a burning blade and not only will the body grow a new head, the head will eventually grow a new body, ending you up with two trolls. At times this secondary propagation method has led to so many swamp trolls that they overran an area and required dedicated hunting teams to wean them out somewhat. Despite the name, swamp trolls can be found in more places than just swamps and bogs, but these are their preferred hunting grounds. Swamp trolls are rather stupid and easily tricked, but can be provoked into bestial berserker rages where they slaughter every living thing they can find. [Uses normal Troll stats, varying in hit dice and size according to how old the troll is, and with even stronger regeneration. Other than War Trolls, they are the only trolls that regenerate, and the only trolls that look like the D&D versions.]

Rock Trolls are a hairy, ugly type believed long to be goblin related but it turns out to be a troll. They are the most organized of the troll types, and can create both tribes, warbands and small armies, and forge and use armor and weapon, usually crude ugly and spiked stuff. An adult rock troll stands up to 8 feet tall, broad-shouldered and strong, with wide-set small red eyes that looks to be filled with malice. While the second weakest troll variety, the fact that they are cleverer than most means they come in surprising varieties, with clerics, warriors and even the occcasional sorcerer among them. They used to be led by strong Rock Troll chieftains and warlords, but recently it's been the mysterious War Trolls that have gathered them up, and this is the main menace other the the tensions between the races that are treathening the land. [Looks like a Bugbear, stats like a bugbear, often complimented with class levels.]

Forest Trolls are the smallest trolls, but among the cleverest, they are natural hunters and sworn enemies of the Wood elves and all good creatures. The elves have tried to wipe them out several times but the trolls just keep coming back. Forest trolls looks a bit like large goblins, but their skin has a chameleon feature that allows them to blend into the background. They often have evil rangers and druids among them, and are knowledgable about poisons and alchemy and often use poisoned weapons, preferring blow guns, spears and small blades. [Stats not unlike a Hobgoblin but with a large stealth bonus, prefer furs and leathers and said weapons, usually warriors, rogues, rangers or druids]

Cave Trolls are large brutish beasts with gray skin and round noses and faces, with wide mouths with black stumpy teeth good for gnawing on bones. Cave trolls can be up to 12 feet tall but are usually closer to 9, and they prefer the underground, where they used to make war on the dwarves. In the last century since the dwarves split into surface dwarves and the evil duergar, the cave trolls seems to have allied with the deep dwarves and tend to accompany them on raids to the surface. Cave trolls are brutishly strong and simple, but sunlight damages them to the point that their skin cracks and seems to turn to stone. They don't seem to leave spores on the surface, so if killed on the surface that's one less troll, but no one knows how many cave trolls roam around the deep undeground tunnels. [Stats not unlike an ogre, but sunlight vulnerability. Think LOTR movie Cave trolls here.]

Hill trolls are the largest trolls, they live in the mountains far from people and are generally cowards despite their awesome strength. OCcasionally a hill troll might come down to the lowlands and decide to raid a village or stake a claim on a bridge somewhere, but for the most part they wander the mountains. Cave trolls can be as large as 20 feet tall or larger, and are ugly beings, like cave trolls covered in long hair with comically large noses. They are stupid and disorganized beings, more likely to carry around a small tree for a club than to actually fashion a genuine club, and usually don't bother wearing any clothes, thankfully they got such prodgious hair growth that whatever privates a troll may have is covered up. [Stats close to large hill giants to stone giants, actual giants are GIANTS the size of mountains who live far far away, quite unlike the D&D giants... again think LOTR, this time the trolls in the third movie on the battlefield]

Sea trolls are aquatic trolls that live in both rivers and in the actual sea, they can breathe under water and over, it and seems to propagate different than other trolls, laying clutches of eggs around (often inside beings such as dead whales), as such the wizards and scholars debate if they actually are trolls or just some twisted mer-creature. They are regardless a menace, fond of assaulting animals people on the beach and near river edges looking for a drink, dragging them with them under water, as well as assaulting sailors and fishermen when they can get enough numbers for it. [Stats not unlike D&D sea trolls, but no regen.]

War trolls are mysterious beings who have shown up only in the last few years, they look like patchwork beings with strong black armor plates seemingly molded onto them, as such most believe the war trolls are some wizard's creation, but no one knows who yet. War trolls are intelligent and very powerful, with the strength of a cave troll, the smarts of a rock troll, and the regenerative powers of a swamp troll. More and more often they are found organizing other trolls, particularily rock trolls and forest trolls but also swamp trolls. War trolls have been observed throwing spells, including hasting themselves and other trolls, throwing fireballs, and healing themselves, but the High Elves believe that rather than being actual spellcasting powers these are spells melded with the creature usually. Dealing with the War trolls are one of the main jobs for adventurers these days when not currying favors for one group or another. [Stats not unlike an Ogre Mage.]
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 06:09:30 PM by Sacremas »
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2014, 01:33:20 AM »

Magic versus Tech

With the dwarves starting an industrial revolution once they had access to surface resources, they've invented many things, including lever-action rifles, revolvers, flamethrowers, tesla-packs (a flamethrower that throws chain ligthing), a telegraph, electric ligths, plumbing, a locomotive and rail line and other things that a modern society takes for granted but stands out in a fantasy setting, and some things that would stand out everywhere like enormous zeppelins, and they've even started experimenting with biplanes. Generally these things run on steam from furnaces or electric generators and dynamos of small scales (though they're building hydroelectric dams), as precious few oil or fuel reserves have been found yet. Dwarves are inherently anti-magical, they can't use it and they distrust it, and somehow this has seeped into their technology as well. Everything magical and everything tech has a magic rating and a tech rating, whichever one is highest wins, and that means the other thing doesn't work immediately near to it. This means flaming swords go out, and grenades don't explode if something nearby is too high on either scale. It's not a guaranteed fail, but it's at least a 50 % failure chance on anything that relies on complex things like chemicals firing or could possibly go wrong. Magic rating is determined by an item or spellcaster's caster level, and quickly for now past level 10-12 goes past almost everything technological that has been made, this is a line that's wavering daily but if a 19th level archmage gets on that locomotive, it's not going to be able to start up, simple as that. This means that if you're a tech user and you're fighting a mage, don't throw grenades at them unless you're throwing multiple because several will misfire, but bullets don't rely on anything technological once it's out of the barrel, so as long as the gun's kept out of the mage's aura or outside of active spell effects, it's going to work just fine. It also means that you are absolutely never going to find a magical firearm, it's just not possible. There are however an advanced masterwork system that provides bonuses not unlike magical effects, and special ammunition like cold iron, silver and adamantium bullets as well as bullets laden with quicksilver and other nasty surprises.

Alchemy is magic unfortunately as it's about accessing the inherent magic in plants, and it's of the lowest sort, so while you don't have to be a mage or divine spellcaster to mix up a healing potion, if you're carrying a revolver at your belt there's a good chance that healing potion is just going to be a foul-smelling drink. Fortunately you can just rid yourself of anything overtly mechanical and leave it a few feet away then drink that potion. Dwarves don't have that luxury, as they are inherently anti-magical and that potion is never going to work on them.

Note that there are some medicinal salves and medicine that are based on chemicals rather than alchemy (big difference), and likewise many poisons such as those taken off animals that are not considered magical, all of these are a lot weaker than the magical versions but they will work regardless on everyone. Even if you're a dwarf wearing a tesla pack on your back, an aloe vera balm or a penicilin shot is not going to fail, and likewise that scorpion venom dart that hit you in the neck is not going to fail either, and strangely enough the magical field of an archmage is not going to disturb that penicilin shot either, despite being arguably technological in origin.


Dwarven Mechanica and Elven Animata

Dwarven Mechanica are mecha as close as you'd know them from anime, but of the steampunk variety. They are Huge sized (20-26 feet tall usually) and have a cockpit, they have 250 hit points and 20 hardness (masterwork versions may have more) and come equipped with rocket launchers, grenade launchers, and an electric chaingun not unlike a Vulcan minigun of modern aircraft that's run by a dynamo revved up by winding a winch inside the cockpit for a moment, otherwise it's controlled by levers and pullies, with a mirror array providing sightings for the pilot to fire the weapons. While physically strong, a mechanica is not equipped for melee combat of any kind, it's simply a walking weapons platform. Mechanica takes a lot of skill to control, in the form of a feat to allow you to do it at all, and then depends on your base attack bonus and your ride skill (rather than inserting a vehicles skill). They are clunky things, very slow to react compared to say a troll of that size or an Animata (below), but on the battlefield they are a terror, and the dwarves are mass producing them, even sizing some for humans and training humans in controlling them. There's going to be a Mechanica Rider prestige class that will provide some bonuses for controlling a mechanica and alleviate some of the inherent drawbacks.

Elven Animata are magical constructs not unlike Iron Golems, usually almost 30 feet tall (huge to gargantuan sized), made of alloys of metals dug out by human workers for the most part as the dwarves are hoarding all the good metals (mithral and adamantine mainly) for their own purposes. An animata is partially controlled by a spirit that was put inside it when it was created, usually a nature spirit or elemental of some kind bound by magic or even convinced to enter into it, and partially by a mage. A 6th level spell on the Sorcerer/Wizard list and Magus list will allow a mage to meld his body with an animata, at which point the mage will basically have become a huge/gargantuan fighter made of metal and everyone else have become small squishy things to step on. That's it, you don't need proficiency in an animata's weapons or know anything of combat to control it, if you were a level 1 peasant with that spell as a spell-like abilitiy somehow who lucked into an animata... well then you'd be the generic teen mecha pilot known from anime who automatically know how to control their weapon of war. Animata are armed with magical weapons, usually a large sword or hammer, as well as often a shield enchanted with missile attraction if that magical weapon is not a two-hander, and often imprinted with spells like fireball, ligthing bolt, and cloudkill but for the most part it's expected to make do with the melee weapon. An Animata has 500 hit points and damage reduction 30/adamantine (or +3 weapons) , as well as usually a regenerating force field providing another 250 hit points as well as a high armor class for it's size (much higher than an average mechanica), and being a highly magical construct it has a 30 foot aura around it that disrupts anything mechanical, that includes Mechanica, so if an animata runs (and it can run, all of them act as if permanently hasted) up to a bunch of mechanica, they are probably going to shut down before that huge magical weapon can cut them to pieces, and if missiles are fired at it, there's a good chance they will misfire before hitting it. Cannons, kinetic penetrators with adamantium warheads, and continuous gatling gun fire is pretty much the only chance a mechanica has against an animata... that and a lot of friends to simply overwhelm it.

Already Mechanica exists in the hundreds, and there are multiple factories mass producing them. Animata takes years to create and a massive effort and investment, and as such there's between one and two dozen of them in the world at all, each costing at least as much as what it would take to make a hundred mechanica, and all of them belonging to either archmages of incredible power or the superweapon defender of entire elven cities entrusted to specific chosen champions of honored bloodlines. Individually an Animata or an archmage would always win against a tech opponent, but it's clear that the dwarves are stacking the odds in their favor if (when) an armed conflict should break out.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 02:09:50 AM by Sacremas »
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2014, 12:40:32 PM »

Gods, Outsiders and the Metaphysical

[Warning, this is going to be very long, involved and complicated. Only for those really interested, or who plan to travel the planes or summon outsiders]

In this setting, gods are not the Greco-Roman or Norse type of just really really powerful epic characters as settings like Forgotten Realms treats them. Gods are metaphysical beings with consciousnesses far beyond those of mortals. A god is aware of everything, everywhen, and exists equally in all parts of time. A god might exist, be worshipped and grant spells to followers that was destroyed in a cataclysm ages ago, but because that god exists equally in all times it's still active. For a more direct example pertaining to the setting, one of the elven gods are called Mahatret, he, she or it (gods do not really have a gender) is a god of gates, seals and portals, and once upon a time it used to be a dragon, one of the dragon overlords that ascended to godhood before or during the point when all the dragons vanished. The dragons worshipped Mahatret simply because he was a dragon god, it was the only god they ever worshipped, but they were aware that he had not come into existence yet,, they knew he was one of their own that would ascend and the idea of that led to many actually wanting to become him, become the thing they worshipped. From what little knowledge the god himself has granted to his worshippers, it seems his asencion happened so late in their chronology that none of the dragons other than the one found out who the god of gates ever was. In divinity, Mahatret Is a god that reinforces the seals on the world and keeps outsiders out, more on that later.

In terms of power, every god is limitless, and none of them are capable of making war on each other. If a level 200 wizard challenged the least and most insignificant god he could find, that god would still be capable of utterly destroying the wizard before he could ever get off a single spell. Due to their divine mind and being aware of everything and everywhen, the minds of gods work completely different from those of mortals, if a mortal were ever to become a god, you would likely not recognize a single facet of that god's "personality" from what it used to be moments before. It's like an ascending mortal just takes a preordained place, filling a void that's always been there and becoming something else. This does not mean that time is predestined however, whenever mortals are involved with their free will, time is in flux, a thing has both happened and not happened at once. Now imagine that being the case for every event through history, viewed by something capable of taking it all in, and you're getting close to understanding how little one can understand of a god's mind. While posessing limitless power, each god is bound by the rules and pacts set out for it. A pact that no god should enter the Abyss for example is infinitely stronger than the combined might of every demon in the abyss rising against the smallest god. Gods have to abide by these pacts and portfolios handed to them, they are their only and final limit. Out in the planes (every plane but the material planes) as long as no pact prevents them from acting, a god can do whatever they want at all, they can create new planes, cause things to have never existed, impossible things for mortals to imagine. On the prime material plane (the plane of mortals, where any part of this campaign takes place unless you're using planeshift or gate spells) however, very strong pacts exists, all known gods are utterly powerless on it. And that brings us to worshippers.

Gods do not need to be worshipped, they do not gain power from it, and all of their worshippers giving up their faith or dying at once would have no real consequences on the god's doings in the planes. However on the prime material plane, the only way a god can cause a miracle to take place, is pretty much only if a Cleric is present to cast the Miracle spell. Gods impart dreams, omens and even very rarely commands to their worshippers in their dreams and prayers, if a god wishes a certain thing to be done, it has to make it's worshippers do it for them. In these terms, gods do not have any limitations regarding what they want should happen, and if two gods wills are at cross, their worshippers will make war even though their gods would never be capable of making an action against each other's divine presence. This is actually a fairly rare case, in the case of almost all "holy wars" it's almost certainly the will of a head cleric (or even affiliated heads of state) rather than the will of a god that causes it to happen, the gods are just allowing it to take place by continuing to grant spells to their divine caster followers (clerics and champions). If a god didn't want a war to take place, the only way it could prevent it was by stopping to give power to their worshippers, hence cutting off it's already extremely limited influence on the prime material, or to make another sect of followers attempt to stop it, causing a schism. As such, gods are both limitless in their power, and so limited that they have no real power not given to them by their followers when it comes to the prime material.

Outsiders are a different matter, outsiders are very much aliens from other planes, a demon is not a metaphysical being of evil, it's simply a monstrous alien from a hell dimension. The hells and heavens are not believed to be the resting place of mortal souls, it's unknown entirely where they go, almost universally mortal beings that have been raised from the dead speak of either a great overwhelming light or that light at the end of a tunnel, mortals don't seem to have a consciounsess beyond death, and evil souls don't seem to get any more punished than good ones. The clear exception to this is mortals who have bargained their souls either to magical beings or to fiends (celestials and other outsiders have shown no interest at all in mortal souls), if you entered a pact or contract with such a being in life, then you are theirs to toy with for the rest of your eternity. Those that have sold their souls like this cannot be raised from the dead or resurrected in any way at all, once they're dead they are gone. A very steep price to pay, but some actually prefer an eternity of servitude or even suffering over the unknown seeming oblivion in that white light. Others simply bargain for the power and try to make sure they never die, chiefly by becoming undead.

Gods do not command outsiders, while the Heavenly Hosts do exist, they do not serve any god, and evil gods do not have an army of demons at their beck and call. Celestials in particular present a very real danger, while everyone know that demons are dangerous, few consider that an angel can be just as or even more dangerous.  Celestials act by rules and moralities alien to even the most devout paladin, if you were to face a Solar then even if you've lived your entire life perfectly virtous, that Solar might still kill you over the evil it's forseen you capable of doing in the future. In general however, celestials do not truly seem to care about individual mortals, they are judges of entire species and timelines, the enforces of the Tribunal, a mysterious entity believed to live on the top of Mount Celestia, cosmic judges with god-like omniscience but who do not care to be worshipped and has never granted spells to any clerics. The Tribunal are believed to be the enforcers of cosmic law in the multiverse, they might send their angelic hordes to cleanse a pit of demons spilling into another plane or to the prime material plane to stop an evil that hasn't happened yet. They are mysterious, terrible, and believed to be utterly without mercy, doing what is good for the multiverse as a whole, not caring about individuals. The mages claim the tribunal even posess the power to utterly destroy a god, but if they have done so in the past, that god cannot be remembered by mortals any more, having been erased from all timelines. Clerics and worshippers for the most part refuse to believe in the Tribunal due to this apparent greater might than the gods they worship.

The fiends are split into two groups, the Tana'ri and the Baatezu, demons and devils, chaos and law, the limitless horrors of the infinite Abyss and the Nine Hells of Baator. At some point possibly before there even was a prime material plane, a demon met a devil, and since then the two have been at war, a war known as the Blood War. The blood war has been fought eternally since, and is the main focus of either respective nether realm, for the most part they clash in one of the other evil outer planes like Gehenna, Carceri, Pandemonium or Acheron, each terrible in their own right and inhabited by other fiend-like outsiders like the Yugoloths or Daemons as they're also called, but sometimes they have spilled over into other planes, including the material plane, where a summoned demon and a summoned devii suddenly ignores their summoner's whims and go at each other with a hatred a mortal can't imagine. Recruiting soldiers for the Blood War, frontline pigs to the slaughter for the most part, is the main reason why demons and devils make bargains with mortals at all, if you die after having signed a contract with one of these, there's a good chance you're going to find yourself on the front lines of the eternal Blood War not long after. Even those still mortal have traveled the planes and signed up with either side in return for riches or magical power of a great degree, these valued mortals usually leading squads of fiends.

Beyond the fiends, there are other outsiders like Elementals, Djinn and Efreeti of the inner Elemental planes including lords in their own might, as well as Slaadi of Limbo and Inevitables of Mechanus, the inhabitants of the planes of Chaos and Order respectively. Slaadi resemble demons to some degree, but they don't really appear to have much of a plan, each Slaadi only living to spread itself by planting eggs inside other beings, preferring mortals. Slaadi incursions are more like infestations that need to be burned out than invasions. Inevitables inhabit the clockwork dimension of Mechanus, the plane of utter law and order, and each seems like constructs specifically set out to enforce specific things, like pacts. Neither seem to care much about the wishes of mortals and so rarely answer summons, but eagerly enter Gates for a chance to stay there permanently.

Beyond these there are other, stranger outsiders, some of them ancient evil invaders, other mindless horrors with no purpose but destruction, the mages who dare enter the outer planes and look up new outsiders encounter new as often as they encounter familiar ones, but generally these other beings seem to be somewhat more removed than the more well known ones, almost as if belonging to other realities. Some have encountered whispers of a vast and dark empire out there, an empire of conquered material planes and dimensions built on the broken backs of a trillion slaves, but whatever these Hidden Lords they talk about are, no one from this material plane has ever encountered them, and likely this is for the best.

Like gods, outsiders are somewhat limited in what they can accomplish on the prime material, and this is believed to either be solely because of Mahatret the Dragon God of Gates and Seals, or something the dragons themselves did and now enforced by that god. An outsider summoned by any means but a Gate spell (9th level) will only appear as an avatar of itself, sligthly weaker, but if killed while summoned the outsider is merely inconvenienced and cannot be summoned again for a day. If summoned via a Gate spell however, the outsider will appear in it's true physical form, usually more powerful than it's avatar form, and if slain then it is permanently dead. As such, Gates offer a combination of fear and temptation to outsiders, on the one hand it's an opportunity to enter the prime material in full force and stay there permanently if they wish, on the other it's the possibility of a true death on a primitive and backwards plane. Gate spells cannot force an outsider to appear, merely entice it, and almost always you will have to bargain with the outsider and offer something truly valuable in return for it to even appear. Fear the demon who doesn't want anything in return for passing through a gate, for it's likely the spearpoint of an invasion, which means there's a good chance the Blood War will break out in your neighbourhood next.

These restrictions however doesn't seem to apply to natives of the prime material plane, who can go as they please through various spells that allow planar access, from Planeshift to Ethereal Jaunt, they just can't bring a non-native back with them unless it's through a Gate. Note that if you should somehow encounter a mortal from another material plane ("prime" in "prime material plane" mostly meaning "your plane") they will count as outsiders for all purposes and need a Gate to enter as anything but an avatar, and once they have crossed over can be Banished by any effect that can return outsiders to their native planes.

On the material plane however there does exist magical beings that for a long time were believed to be demons or the like. These are spirits, and they inhabit every aspect out there, all plants have spirits, an an ancient tree almost certainly has a powerful spirit, and an even more ancient forest might have a group mind of spirits inhabiting it. These are not outsiders, they are incorporeal beings of magic, and most mages believe even mortal beings have a spirit inside them, what we call the soul. For the most part, a spirit's influence is weak on the real world, but an ancient tree spirit might one day decide it wants to walk around and become a treant, and it happens, a pile of rocks might animate on it's own, and so on. Spirits in plants are what gives alchemy it's power, and beings like lycanthropes are actually animal spirits posessing mortals. "Non intelligent" undead like zombies, skeletons and ghouls and ghasts and quite a few more are actually a spirit accidentally entering a corpse, or being enticed or forced to do so by a necromancer, the only undead that are actually the consciousness of the mortals they used to be are vampires, liches, ghosts and some few others, in all the other cases it's a different entity posessing and animating the corpse. Golems are likewise spirits enticed to enter a magical construct, the spirit giving the construct life, as such the difference between a zombie and a flesh golem is very very low, a flesh golem is simply a masterwork zombie. The elven Animata are soul-vessels actually, holding a very powerful and ancient spirit, the older and more powerful a spirit is the more powerful the animata will be, with the melded mage then providing the will with the spirit assisting.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 01:04:47 PM by Sacremas »
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2014, 09:24:41 PM »

Bishop came up with the following rules to help dwarven non-magical gear match up to magic stuff, I'll be using it with some very minor alterations;

Improved Masterwork Crafter: You learned the secrets of steel or wood and are exceptionally good at creating items from that material.  Your uncanny knowledge gives you better insight on improving what existing devices can do.

Prerequisite: any appropriate Craft (material) Skill, 6 or more ranks, and an appropriate masterwork item

Benefit: Masterwork items you create have additional, non-magical properties that enhance the existing bonuses of the device you attempt to work on.

For one-handed weapons, you can improve the bonus to hit by 1 (cumulative) or increase the damage by 1; for two-handed weapons, you can improve either attack or damage by 2, or both by 1 (for weapons that are made from more than one material, such as the metal axe-head and wood haft, you must have the appropriate craft skill for each material).

For Masterwork weapons, these bonuses do not stack with magic enhancement bonuses; the higher of the two bonuses is used as normal masterwork weapons (still retains the masterwork bonuses in an antimagic field or if the item was dispelled). 

For Improved Masterwork Armors, recalculate it's base weight as 25% lighter (round up), and improve its protection by 1 OR reduce its Armor Check penalty by 1 ( cannot reduce check penalties below 0)  Improved Masterwork Medium Armor is treated as Light Armor for purposes of speed and Class features (does not stack with mithral or other lighter materials)

Improved Masterwork Items have their respective bonuses improved by 1 or 2 (depending on their original bonuses) and their weight is reduced by 15-25% (if beneficial) without losing integrity or hitpoints.


Normal: Masterwork Weapons only confer a +1 attack bonus, and masterwork armor only reduce the armor check penalty by 1.  See an individual item's description for masterwork items of their particular variety.

Greater Masterwork Crafter
- prerequisite: Improved feat (above), Craft material +12 Ranks, appropriate item to improve.

For one-handed weapons, improve both attack and damage bonuses by 1 (cumulative).
For two-handed weapons, improve both attack and damage bonuses by 2 (cumulative).

For all armor types, reduce the armor check penalties by 2 (cumulative, minimum 0), improve MaxDex bonuses by 2 (cumulative) and reduce all weights by 50% of original weight.  Greater Masterwork Heavy armors are now treated as "Light" in terms of encumberance and class features, (though you may still need Heavy Armor Proficiency to wear it correctly)
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2014, 12:48:30 PM »

Okay some details about your characters;

The kind of stories that I like is not the heroes being run of the mill adventurers, just standard nobodies who meet in a tavern and swear to rid the land of evil no matter how many times they have to be raised from the dead to do it, I like heroes, the kind of legendary types that you see in virtually any CRPG like Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Dragon Age, Final Fantasy, and so on, larger than life figures capable of amazing feats.

Fortunately Pathfinder has a system for that, it's called Mythic heroes, and that's what you'll be. You won't be Mythic to start with, you'll start as ordinary mortals, but during the first adventure something will happen to change you and make you more than that. No details beyond that just keep it in mind, among other things it means you'll have to pick a Mythic Path, this is kind of like an extra class or prestige class but one you can only advance in by fulfilling specific requirements rather than by doing so by gaining Xp. The ones you can choose from is Archmage, Champion (unrelated to the Champion class I was talking about, I may change that or just drop "Lawful" alignment from paladins), Guardian, Heirophant, Marshal, and Trickster. Additionally each of these will have access to a general path ability list that you can see here, and new and added to that list is a Path ability you can select at 1st level that will simply cancel out those rules that magic and tech interferes with each other, take it and your Dwarf will be able to drink potions and wear boots of speed and fire his revolver without it risking blowing up while standing next to the archmage, but it still won't allow your dwarf to take spellcasting classes. You can also take it if you're a tech hero like a Gunslinger who just want to combine magic and tech. The abilities granted by the Mythic reason is world-changing on a small level, so it'll make things work like that for you and you alone, while any other dwarf or gunslinger will work as normal and have to worry about magic fields and the like. Of course it'll also cost you 1/10 out of a very hefty ability list so it's an investment. Note also that being a Mythic divine spellcaster, primarily a Cleric or Paladin, will have significant effects, you may end up the focal point of your entire religion, for better or worse... Regardless, your characters will be world-shakers and makers, the Mythic thing will be an explanation to how come you end up being at the focal point on every major event and there to lend influence, an unlikely series of events explained by something momentous influencing events.

In addition to that even, this game will use the Hero Point system presented in the Advanced Player's guide, you can find the rules for that here, all of the Hero Point rules are in effect. Some NPCs will have hero point access as well, mainly ones who are also Mythic, though these are of the "climactic arch-villain" types, not run of the mill thugs and critters. To begin with you'll be able to start off with 2 hero points instead of 1 if you both write a very good and fleshed-out background, and include some moment in your background that more or less defined your character, some large event that we could explore later in a flashback solo adventure. Note that if you're really silly and include a memory loss in that event ("I can't quite recall what happened next but when I came to it was several days later, and the Jackson brothers and their gang were dead" for example), things might end up a bit more complex...

Finally, to further help build your characters we'll be using the Traits system, when you make your characters you'll add 2 traits to the list out of the Advanced Player's Guide, you can find a trait list here, and can get more from various ways. There's going to be a few new traits as well, mainly regional/background traits, thing to tell where you come from and how you grew up, your general background. We'll start at level 3 so you'll have some other opportunity to flesh out your character, but these will be the main way you'll do it.

Speaking of fleshing out, visually I'm starting to rear towards a Victorian London type of feel over a lot of things, clothing will be a lot more like that with suits and fancy dresses and balls among the high elite, among the lower classes (aka 90 % of the world) things will be a bit more dirty and run down, the industrial revolution is coming to the world but a lot of that technology runs on steam powered by coal burning, so there's often a smog over the gaslit streets of human and dwarven cities. High Elven cities are different, they're magically lit and perfectly clean and orderly, with a certain undertone to it, you don't see the poor people in elven cities unless they're servants of the archmages, it's a segregation part where either you're magically active or you're a lesser being even if you're an elf, and if you aren't even that then we're looking at slavery of the darkest sort rather than mere segregated servants, with the strong males almost all being sent off to the mines to rarely come back, and attractive women being trained as maids or something far worse. Out in the villages things are more or less like both Europe and America around the 1900s and just earlier, some new innovations may have come but for the most part small cities are just struggling along, but for some like freed Orcs this is some of the best place to be if you can find an open-minded town that don't mind a skilled blacksmith or a strong constable, and plenty of young men from the cities grab a sword, revolver or a wand and head out to meet their fortunes on the wild frontiers where trolls roam about and duergar steal children in the night and outlaws rob banks and stage coaches, and evil lurks out in the forests. The wood elf forests are however pure Tolkien, elves exactly like you'd imagine them, still stuffy and isolationist but not arrogantly cruel like the high elves, but fiercly protective of their homes, with cities that are trees that have been coaxed with druidic magic into forming living cities. Wood elven fashion and culture is something that resembles more fantasy fare, things of a bygone age, hidden from the world. The Fae (namechange from Fey to keep it separated from the racial type) likewise come from this world, but come into it with so much curiosity of the world outside, and very few of the rare folk stay, and the ones who do wander out rarely come back.

As you can see I'm still working on the setting but it's getting along into a cohesive whole that may hopefully be interesting to play in.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 03:23:42 PM by Sacremas »
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2014, 01:06:31 PM »

Just an update, I'm still working on this game concept, I just stopped posting it here because of lack of feedback. It also has a game name finally, the Tapestry. Currently working on the storyline itself including the most epic dungeon you ever imagined (instead of levels it's got separate pocket planes with their own environments, each with a quest that needs solving to get to the next layer and the ultimate monster of all time bar none at the bottom) as well as the geopolitical landscape and the like. Additionally I'm working on the magic branches or sub-schools of Automagic (triggered spells and contingencies and traps, magic that works on it's own once set up, including possibly a prestige class around enhnacing such magic and getting even more use out of it) and Diplomancy (charm and illusion mainly based on influencing others, will include/be centered around a prestige class that's halfway between a bard and an enchanter, ultimate people person and diplomat).
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2014, 08:43:05 PM »

Still working on this actually, and here's a further step to remove houserules; Aescetic class is gone, and replaced by the following;

School of the Mastery of Body and Mind

A few hundred years ago a bunch of students of a magus school that practiced unarmed fighting in a fighting ring got together and compared notes, they had ideas for using magical talent in different directions, focusing it inwards to empower the body even further rather than outwards. The result was the school of the Mastery of Body and Mind, the first Monk school in the land. Almost a hundred years down the line from that another questing student skilled in the art of meditation unlocked the secrets of the mind as well, and sought to create a perfect union. This lead to the School of the Mastery of Body including Mind in that as well, and becoming a school of both monks and those practicing psionics, though the school encourages normally combining the two.

In addition to the normal Monk and Psionic classes of Ultimate Psionics for Pathfinder, this opens up as well to the following; students of other practices can also learn the Youxia Archetype and add to any other classes (clerics in particular are known for doing this), and the traditional masters of the school are usually either Monk/Adept multiclass characters, or Psychic Warriors using the Meditant archetype.

The school is open to all characters who shows the patience needed to underdake the deep meditations usually required to unlock both ki and psionic potential. Ki is still magic of a kind even if an internal type, and so cannot be practiced by dwarves, but psionics can however. The deep dwarves (duergar) are even known to use psionic powers, indicating that this secretive society have independently somehow developed psionics since the surface dwarves split from them.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 11:20:26 AM by Sacremas »
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2014, 11:08:42 AM »

I have an ugly idea for a barbarian, not sure how viable it would be. While raging a barbarian is immune to all mind-affecting spells and all death spells (but see below), and being dropped to negative hit points does not stop him. If he drops to a negative hit point amount equal to negative Constitution score then he drops dead, until then he can keep going just fine, but if he goes out of a rage in negative hit points then he becomes dying as normal.

Here's the caveat though; when a barbarian takes damage while raging I don't tell him what damage he took, if he takes a critical I don't tell him, so his hit point total and if he's going to drop dead all of a sudden soon is completely unknown until he drops out of a Rage, whereupon I tell him what his hit point totals are. Moreover if he fails a save against a death attack or anyting else that would have killed him normally, it's not ignored, it's just delayed until the Rage ends. While under a rage deathwatch and similar spells that tell others how injured he is don't work on the barbarian.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 11:11:02 AM by Sacremas »
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