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Author Topic: Pathfinder interest?  (Read 7360 times)

Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2014, 02:29:15 PM »

Thanks for the advice, but I'm not quite like most people where rules burn me out, rules are what keeps me interested, for another game that I'm working on I got a rule document that's 80 pages long so far about changing True20 to match my vision of a dystopic sci-fi anime setting. I'm going to take a look at those sources you mentioned and take what I can, but a lot of that is outdated for Pathfinder considerations and so need to be changed anyway. Overall I'm going to be a lot more sure of a rule set if I can write it up myself in one cohesive document with everything balanced towards each other rather than use a ton of rulebooks from three different variations of a system to get what I want. Overall characters are going to be slightly more powerful than even Pathfinder characters, but will be balanced up against each other, and I can then balance the world up against what the PCs end up as.
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2014, 09:58:57 PM »

Here's a sample of how I'd like to change things, the Champion:

Champions are the greatest servants of their gods, embodying a lot of the concepts and general qualities of the god. A Champion of the god of Justice will often be stern but fair, looking to right wrongs, a champion of the god of the dead will look to shephard the souls of the fallen to the afterlife, destroy undead and battle necromancers and others who desecrate the dead. Champions of good gods are known as Paladins often, champions of evil gods are known as Blackguards.
Alignment: Any, but it has to be the same as your god.
Hit Dice: D10.

Skills: As Paladin.
Combat advancement, weapon and armor proficiency: As Paladin

Class features:

Alignment Aura (Ex): A champion radiates an aura with a strength equal to his level, this aura is determined by the paladin's alignment, a Lawful Good champion will radiate an aura of good and law, a chaotic evil champion will radiate an aura of Chaos and Evil.  A True Neutral champion does not have this ability.

Detect Alignment (Sp): As a Paladin's Detect Evil, but when you take the class you decide what you want to detect, either Good, Evil, Law or Chaos, overall whatever is most opposed to your beliefs. Once set this ability cannot be changed. A True Neutral Champion may choose any option, the others are set by their alignment, with Good aligned Champions detecting evil, evil aligned characters detecting good, Lawful Neutral detecting Chaos, and Chaotic Neutral detecting Law.

Smite Infidel (Su): As a Paladin's Smite Evil, but targeting whatever alignment you've chosen to detect with Detect Alignment, otherwise following all the normal rules. Smite Chaos for example will smite chaotic beings (Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Evil), including Chaotic outsiders such Slaadi and demons, but also several chaotic good Celestial types.
Divine Grace (Su): As a Paladin's ability.

Lay on Hands/Infuse Weapon (Sp): This ability is determined by your alignment, good Champions get Lay on Hands (And Mercies), evil Champions get Infuse Weapon, while Neutral champions pick one of the two. This choice also later determines if you can channel positive or negative energy. Infuse Weapon is used as a swift weapon and will turn your weapon Vampiric, dealing 1d6 extra damage on the next strike for every two champion levels, spend a Swift action before making your attack. The Champion will then heal half the damage done. Refer to the Vampiric Touch spell for more information on how this works. The Champion can use this ability a number of times equal to half her Champion levels plus her Charisma modifier. Alternately you can spend one use of Infuse Weapon to heal an Undead target for the same amount by touching it.

Aura of Courage (Su): As the Paladin's ability, Champions of all alignment are equally immune to fear and carry this aura, though an evil Blackguard's aura feels somewhat more unsettling than that of a Paladin.

Divine Health (Ex): As the Paladin's ability.

Mercy/Punishment (Su): Wether a Champion can deliver Mercies or Punishments are determined by if she has Lay on Hands or Infuse Weapon. Mercies work just like the Paladin's ability, Punishment deliver most of the same things that a Paladin can remove. When you deliver a Punishment you choose one of the options that you can deal, the next target damaged by your Infuse Weapon power then has to make a fortitude save with a DC of 10 + half your Champion level + your Chairsma modifier or get one of the following Punishments in addition to the damage. At 3rd level a champion can pick one of the following Punishments: Fatigue (the target becomes Fatiged as normal), Shaken (the target becomes Shaken for 10 rounds), Sickened (the target becomes Sickened for 10 rounds), at 6th level the Champion can choose from one of the following Punishments to deliver instead: Dazed (the target becomes Dazed for 10 rounds), Diseased (the taget becomes infected with a wasting disease, with initial and secondary damages of 1d6 Strength damage), Staggered (the target becomes staggered for 10 rounds), at 9th level a Champion can choose from one of the following Punishments to deliver instead: Cripple (Target takes 2d6 dexterity damage), Fear (as per the Horror spell), Posion (As per the Cleric spell), at 12th level a Champion can choose one of the following Punishments to deliver instead: Blinded (As Power Word Blind), Confused (as per the Confusion spell), Cursed (As Bestow Curse), Drained (target takes 1d2 negative levels), at 15th level a Champion can deliver two Punishments at once but not of the same kind, at 20th level a Champion delivers all of her known Punishments in every Infuse Weapon strike.

Channel Positive/Negative Energy: At 4th level, a Champion can channel positive or negative energy as a cleric three levels lower than her Champion levels, wether she channels positive or negative energy is determined by if she has Lay on Hands or Infuse Weapon.

Spells: As per Paladin's spellcasting ablities, but spell list is determined by what god you worship and what spheres you have access to, though some spells are universal (though wether you get a Holy Sword, Unholy Blade, Sword of Law or Chaotic Blade spell for example is determined by your alignment).

Divine Bond: As Paladin ability, but you can only choose to bond with a weapon, not a mount. Champions get a ritual spell that's avaiable to all of them that lets you call a magical being to serve as your steed, though wether you get a Nightmare, a Unicorn, Pegasus or Fiendish Pony is both determined by your alignment, race, and whatever your god (read: DM) has in mind for you. The difference between this and a divine bond mount is that it does not advance in levels with you, it may not be entirely loyal, and you are not adversely affected if it should die except that you won't be able to summon another for a week.

Aura of Resolve: As per the Paladin ability.

Aura of Battle: As per the Aura of Justice ability, but it can affect anyone one step away from your alignment, and they get your Smite Infidel power instead.

Aura of Faith: As per the Paladin ability, but your weapon's qualities are determined by your alignment.

Aura of Rightousness: As per the Paladin ability, but your damage reduction can be penetrated by the opposition to that alignment, or magical +2 weapons as per all damage reduction (damage reduction penetrated by magic can be penetrated by +1 or better weapons, while damage reduction verus alchemical silver, cold iron or alignment can be penetrated by that or +2 weapons, adamantine can be pentrated by that or +3 weapons, while damage reduction versus +2 and holy for example can be penetrated by that or +4 weapons by adding them together, so a damage reduction versus anything but +4 adamantine weapons is only going to be penetrated by that or an artifact weapon).

Conduit: As per the Holy Champion ability of Paladins, but your Banishment ability works on outsiders harmed by your Smite Infidel power.

Specializations: At 5th, 10th and 15th character level you can pick one of the following specializations if you are a Champion, the powers gained here are in addition to your normal advancement abilities in the class:
Cavalier: You gain qualities suited to dealing with classic champion enemies, dragons and evil outsiders, including the ability to remove fear from your comrades, resistances to the elements, immunity to poison, and spells that will assist you in dealing with outsiders.
Death Knight: You gradually start to become undead, taking on undead qualities (see the Undead lineage of Sorcerers for example of how this would work), and become more capable of commanding undead.
Exorcist: You gain increased powers for dealing with undead beings, increased channel positive energy powers related to turning undead, immunity to hold and level drain, and spells suited to combating undead.
Hospitaler: Your healing abilities increase greatly and you get access to better healing spells.
Inqusitor: You gain magic resistance, a (greater) dispel magic ability, and your Smite Infidel ability can dispel a target's spell protections, and you add the wizard spell Breach (which dispels all combat protections a target may have) to your 3rd level spell list.

More specializations may be available later, in addition you'll have access to specialization opitons from your race as well, such as increased spell abilities for being a High Elf or Fey. Once chosen you may not change a specialization choice, and will continue to gain it's granted abilities for the rest of your career.

Fallen Champions: Champions who turn away from their god or change alignments lose access to all class abilities until they can attone or become the champion of another god, though this is a difficult process.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 10:36:00 PM by Sacremas »
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Requiem

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2014, 10:17:08 PM »

Dibs! I'm suddenly picturing a halfling rogue/death knight on a fiendish pony. The one thing that's always bugged me about classic paladin is just how rooted and trapped the always seemed to be. This has changed over the years from various systems but I feel like you hit the nail on the head here and gave them the flexibility they've sorely needed while still keeping the devoted warrior concept intact. Chosen weapon is an especially nice touch.
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2014, 01:11:34 AM »

Okay, here's another changed class, what used to be the Ranger class;

Hunters

Hunters are the best there is at what they do, which is tracking their prey and putting them down. Wether that prey is an animal in the wild, an undead monstrosity, a wizard, or a nobleman the Hunter has been paid to assasinate, once a Hunter sets out there's no escaping them.

Hit Dice: D8

Skills, Weapon and Armor Proficiencies, Save and Combat progression: As Ranger

Class Abilities:

Favored Enemy: As the Ranger ability, but choices also include Magic Users, and others. At 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level, a Hunter gains another favored enemy, and his bonuses against all favored enemies rise by +2, so if a 20th level Hunter picks Demons as his last favored enemy, he gains a +10 bonus against demons.

Track: As the Ranger ability.

Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, and every 3rd level after it (5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 20th) a Hunter gains a bonus feat off the same list that Fighters can choose, but cannot choose fighter-only feats such as Weapon Specialization.

Sneak Attack: At 3rd level, and at every 3rd level after it (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th) a Hunter gains a 1d6 sneak attack dice, this works as per the Rogue ability, but only applies towards your favored enemies. However, the Hunter can perform a sneak attack and get this damage bonus even against favored enemies immune to sneak attacks, such as undead. If the Hunter has a sneak attack ability from another source such as Rogue levels, they stack as long as they apply to the same target (a rogue cannot sneak attack undead, and a Hunter cannot sneak attack targets not on their favored enemy list).

Favored Terrain: As per the Ranger ability, gained at 3rd level.

Studied Enemy: If a 4th level Hunter has a chance to study an enemy, either by reading up on it or learning from a knowledgable source, or observing it's movements and patterns over a day, he will gain his Favored Enemy bonus against that target. If this target is an entire race or type of targets instead of an individual target, he has to choose a favored foe to lose bonuses against, he can regain his bonuses against his previously chosen enemy by restudying the enemy again later. In effect this allows a Hunter to alter his favored enemy as situations change.

Hunter's Knowledge: A 4th level Hunter can spend a standard action to point out the weaknesses in a foe that's his favored enemy, this grants his companions within audible range his favored enemy bonus for one round, at 8th level this bonus persists for 2 rounds, at 12th level they get it 3 rounds, at 16th level they get it for 4 rounds and at 20th level they get it for 5 rounds.

Ambush: A 5th level Hunter learns how to set up ambushes and traps for his favored foe, if a Hunter has at least a minute to prepare the Hunter rolls half his level plus either his Intelligence or Wisdom, whichever is better, on a roll of 10-14 the Hunter and his companions gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls and all skil checks against his favored foe for the next encounter, on a roll of 15-19 the bonus rises to +2, on a roll of 20-24 it becomes +3, on a roll of 25-29 it becomes +4, and on a roll of 30 or more it becomes +5. If you are preparing an ambush in a Favored terrain, add your favored terrain bonus to this roll. At 10th level and higher, when preparing an Ambush, the area you set your ambush up in becomes your favored terrain for all purposes except gaining the bonus on the roll, including allowing you to use Hide in Plain Sight.

Pursuit: At 6th level the Hunter can move at his normal speed while tracking his favored opponent. At 12th level he can move at a running speed while tracking his prey with only a -10 penalty on the check, or take 10 on tracking rolls when moving at normal speed. On 18th level, he takes no penalties on the check, and can take 10 on tracking rolls even when running, or take 20 when moving at normal speed.

Trackless (Su): At 7th level the Hunter can move as to obscure his own tracks, imposing a -10 penalty on any attempts to track him. On 10th level, the Hunter has learned to obscure his own scent and cannot be tracked with Scent abilities. On 15th level, the Hunter has learned to even magically obscure himself, and gains a Spell Resistance of 10 + his level against all Divination spells, inclduing scrying abilities and spells that detect his alignment.

Evasion: As per the Rogue ability, gained at 8th level. On 14th level this becomes Improved Evasion instead.

Quarry: As per the Ranger ability, gained at 10th level.

Uncanny Dodge: As per the Rogue ability, gained at 12th level. At 15th level this becomes Improved Uncanny Dodge instead, and the Hunter can no longer be sneak attacked.

Camoflague: As per the Ranger ability, gained at 12th level.

Hide in Plain Sight: As per the Ranger ability, gained at 15th level. Note that if you have a minute to prepare an Ambush somewhere, you can effectively use this ability anywhere at all, just not on the move unless it's in your actual favored terrain.

Improved Quarry: As per the Ranger Ability, gained at 19th level.

Master Hunter: As per the Ranger ability, gained at 20th level.

Specializations: The following are some of the specializations available to a Hunter, gained at 5th, 10th and 15th level.
Consumate Archer: You gain advanced archery abilities, such as seeking arrows seek out your favored enemy or quarry even through cover or when you can't see them, arrows that ignore damage reduction qualities, and arrows enhanced with alchemical properties that turn them into explosives, powerful poisons, and more.
Mageslayer: You gain spell resistance and the ability to ignore damage reduction from spell sources such as Stoneskin, and the ability to see through illusions.
Mark of Death: You gain an Assasin's arcane spellcasting abilities (as per D&D DMG spell list, using Ranger spell progression and Int as the ability), better Sneak Attack, and Death Attack. You cannot have this and Nature Bond.
Nature Bond: You gain a Ranger's divine spellcasting abilities, Animal companion, and Woodland Stride ability.
Protean: You gain Shapeshifting abilities similar to that of a druid.
Survivor: You gain near immunity to any natural hazard in your favored terrain such as freezing snowstorms, damage reduction versus your favored enemy, your hit dice increases to d10 (reroll for all your Hunter levels), and you automatically stabilize if brought to negative hit points.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 04:04:25 AM by Sacremas »
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Bishop

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2014, 02:22:59 PM »

As I said, a lot of your customizations have already been published for Pathfinder:  http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
. . Pick a class, scroll towards the bottom, look for "Alternate Class Features" table for a list of class variants for all shapes, sizes, and races and style of play.

Anything that's not there, or was written for 3.0/3.5 can easily be converted with some sensiblilty/cooperation between GM and player, and then declared "home-brewed" into your setting to be unique?  (I recently helped a friend convert his 3.5 Shadowcaster to PF)

But don't get me wrong-- I'm not against you revamping classes; I just want to point out that there were some significant "balancing" done to 3.5 thanks to Pathfinder.  Clerics and Sorcerers got the biggest overhaul (having been extremely "vanilla" with their *only* benefits at 1st level), and Paladins and Rangers got significant boosts in their respective roles.  I can't say much for bards because I haven't looked at them closely enough to know the differences, but I digress...

Putting that much work into the two examples you've given so far, and wanting the players to have more powerful characters... would it be easier to just Gestalt?  ...Your Ranger with Sneak Attack gives me that feeling, but that's just me...
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2014, 02:34:01 PM »

Thanks for the advice, but I'm not quite like most people where rules burn me out, rules are what keeps me interested

You did see this part right? Sorry but I'm going to do it my way.
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2014, 02:48:22 PM »

Note that that doesn't necessarily mean I don't accept critique of my work, if you think something like Sneak attack doesn't fit a particular class say so and I'll reconsider, but I won't consider "why don't they just multiclass" for something that seems to fit with the class I'm building.

To me rangers have often been the odd men out, I just haven't been able to reconcile their class abilities with what's displayed in lore (the dual wielding for example was added solely because of the popularity of Drizzt, a character who doesn't cast any ranger spells and don't have an animal companion - and a magical summon doesn't count - but is a consumate tracker). Pathfinder did a good job in narrowing down their roles, I just shaved off a few more of the meat and added some options, now you can turn the Hunter back into a proper ranger with all of the normal class abilities and some extra by taking the Nature Bond class specialization, or you can turn him into an assassin if your hunter is more of an urban type who hunts people, or a consumate survivor in the wilderness not so much in tune with the world as having learned to survive everything it can throw at them.

Champions on the other hand if you read the class you'll see is pretty much exactly the normal Pathfinder paladin, I just made some of their powers general alignment instead of Lawful Good only, so that Blackguards don't have to be prestige classes, it's pretty much exactly the Paladin and if you take the Champion class as a lawful good character that's exactly what you end up as, by the book as per Pathfinder, plus whatever specializations you add. But you can also take it as a elven chaotic good warrior, or a Lawful Neutral Champion of the Judge, etc. It just brings more utility to the class and use rather than the extreme narrowness of what Paladin has always been since it's inception in AD&D.

EDIT: Also note that some of these alterations (particularily to Sorcerer, who will be more restricted in Bloodlines) will be because of setting changes, it's not quite a normal pathfinder or D&D setting that we're working on, all the nonhuman races will be reworked for one, for example Dwarves are descendent from grub worms and still are born from eggs, they are highly magic resistant but this prevents them from using items like potions or recieving healing spells or taking any class with a spellcasting property (they can take the Hunter class, but cannot gain spellcasting in it), but have fast healing and a healing trance that they use instead, they have a gnome's ingenuity (and an intelligence bonus instead of wisdom) and tendency for tinkering and has done an industrial revolution, creating steampunk tech, electricity, tesla cannons, and steampunk mecha (giant robos that you ride around in), as well as revolvers, grenades and other more modern weapons that actively work to disrupt magic around them by their very presence, but strong magical sources such as golems (in particular the elven Animata, magical mecha that a mage meld with and become rather than pilot) disrupt tech and keeps it from working, making guns and missiles misfire. The gnomes and halflings are gone, they just don't exist in the setting, but their role and a lot of their traits are included in a race called the Fey, magical beings partially spirits, with innate magical abilities (that may be expanded with race specialization) and a wanderlust that makes them want to see the entire world, they are natural sorcerers with their own bloodline, as well as bards.

As for Bards, if you have access to Monte Cook's Book of Eldrich Might 2 the alternate bard posted there is pretty much what I'll be using in whole, slightly upgraded (not much). They are no longer erstatz sorcerers, instead they use song magic that's not arcane or divine but a different kind of magic entirely as different from the other two as psionics. Elves can specialize in this as Sword-Singers, and human barbarian tribes have Skald traditions that's a more war-like version of the Bard..
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 03:06:46 PM by Sacremas »
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Bishop

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2014, 03:22:58 PM »

Thanks for the advice, but I'm not quite like most people where rules burn me out, rules are what keeps me interested

You did see this part right? Sorry but I'm going to do it my way.

I did, and i get it.  "Sac-20" not D20  :)

I'm not deterred... but maybe you should wait to post all the gritty details for class-tweaking on a home board after this Recruitment thread is closed or filled?   
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2014, 04:07:56 PM »

Why? This is a thread started by me about interest in a game I'm going to run. For all intents and purposes this thread is my board/forum. And more to the point this game is still a very long while off (aside from the class and race rebuilds I have an entire world to build up and plot), and besides wouldn't you like to know what you're getting into before you accept to become a player in this game? This way we'll develope the classes that you'll use for the game and the new spells etc (where I can't take from other sources) and finalize the races, and then when everything is ready, then we'll call for a recruitment and actually start the game up.

Also note my second post, if I didn't want critique of what I'm doign (with the caveat that I'm actually doing it for fun, and so will do a lot of work I don't really have to because it's fun, and it helps me to know the system intimately), then I wouldn't be posting it here, I'd just do a document and iron out the details like I'm doing with my anime setting. That's a more private project where everything has to be the way it has because it's an entirely new creation of mine (a complete revamp of the True20 system, think Pathfinder for True20) and because the world is very personal to me. I won't accept critique for that becuase there everything actually has to work the way it does to make the world itself work, and eveyrthing has been considered and reconsidered to fit with the world. This however is not so personal, the basic idea for the setting came from Cyclone and we've been developing it together for a few months, so I'm very much up for changing. Dwarves coming from grub worms and unable to use magic sound unworkable, I'm actually willing to revert them all the way to the basic Pathfinder race. I'm just trying to be a bit original about it.
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2014, 04:19:20 PM »

Also incidentally, is there any resource that you know of (since you seem to know more about d20 in general than me) that include Sequencers and spell triggers? Basically think Contingencies, but not set up to be activate automatically but more like an innate spell completion ability that casts several spells. I'm also going to want a Chain Contingency spell (like Contingency, but several spells at once), a sort of magical enhancement spell or mythal that a mage can weave around them that makes subsequent spellcasting more efficient (better spell penetration, higher saving throw DCs, etc), as well as spell shields of various kind, not just spell turning but spell absorbtion abilities in several levels, Greater Stoneskin, Premonition, a spell shield that's only there to shield your other spells from being dispelled, and spell piercing abilities that dispel specific spells rather than Dispell magic's general ability but will guaranteed work without caster check as long as not shielded against, and others that reduce spell resistance. If you played Baldur's Gate II this probably sounds very familiar, that kind of strategizing in spellcasting is what I'm going for with my mages. Clerics will get some lesser versions of these (Shield of the Archons I think it was called in the game) and overall a lot of combat buffing and protection abilities. Their spell selections will be more determined by their god's domains to a greater degree (spells will belong to certain spheres, like in AD&D), but they'll be able to spontaneously cast more spells depending on their god, not just cure/inflict. Druids will get even more offensive spells and specializations that make some mage spells available to them (Fireball, ligthting bolt, cloudkill, several others), but also more buffing spells and spells about making their animal companion stronger or making their wild shapes stronger.
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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2014, 11:37:21 AM »

Also incidentally, is there any resource that you know of (since you seem to know more about d20 in general than me) that include Sequencers and spell triggers? Basically think Contingencies, but not set up to be activate automatically but more like an innate spell completion ability that casts several spells. I'm also going to want a Chain Contingency spell (like Contingency, but several spells at once), a sort of magical enhancement spell or mythal that a mage can weave around them that makes subsequent spellcasting more efficient (better spell penetration, higher saving throw DCs, etc), as well as spell shields of various kind, not just spell turning but spell absorbtion abilities in several levels, Greater Stoneskin, Premonition, a spell shield that's only there to shield your other spells from being dispelled, and spell piercing abilities that dispel specific spells rather than Dispell magic's general ability but will guaranteed work without caster check as long as not shielded against, and others that reduce spell resistance. If you played Baldur's Gate II this probably sounds very familiar, that kind of strategizing in spellcasting is what I'm going for with my mages. Clerics will get some lesser versions of these (Shield of the Archons I think it was called in the game) and overall a lot of combat buffing and protection abilities. Their spell selections will be more determined by their god's domains to a greater degree (spells will belong to certain spheres, like in AD&D), but they'll be able to spontaneously cast more spells depending on their god, not just cure/inflict. Druids will get even more offensive spells and specializations that make some mage spells available to them (Fireball, ligthting bolt, cloudkill, several others), but also more buffing spells and spells about making their animal companion stronger or making their wild shapes stronger.

The 3.5 core rulebooks have most of what you're asking - the spells exists primarily in the PHB, but there are other supplements to that effect, (Spell Compendium I and II, PHB2, and any "Complete XXXX" series that promotes spellcasting, as well as the variety of other Campaign settings).

Spell Penetration, Spell Concentration, and their Improved/Greater versions all exist as "Feats" in the PHB as well.  Each campaign setting also includes Feats relative to their niche, such as Ebberon and their Dragonmarks.  "Craft Contingency" is in one of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting books (I can give you a direct source/quote later).

3.5 has "spheres" but they've been reclassified as "Schools" - Alteration, Conjuration, Evocation, Necromancy, Divination... you get the idea.  Many spells overlap for each class, but each class has its own lists to draw from.  Pathfinder followed suit, though, if you want an alternate magic system, I would suggest Monte Cooke's Arcana Unearthed (not to be confused with 3.5's Unearthed Arcana... they are distinctively different books)  If you don't have a set of Core rulebooks laying around, go back to that previous Pathfinder link I pasted and, on the left side, scroll down to" Magic > Spells (Paizo)" -- they're pretty much identical to 3.5 [PF's Combat Maneuver mechanic being the biggest difference]

For "spell triggers" and activation, the individual spell now dictates what is required for it to "go off" - the details of which exist in each PHB3.5 and Pathfinder.  ...As far as magic items, the DMG and Magic Item Compendium gives generic activation methods (wield a weapon, wear a ring, speak a command word, think a Swift thought) as well as how to activate specific items found in their individual descriptions (Gloves of the Manticore, Bracers of Lightning, etc)

Hope that helps?
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Bishop

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2014, 02:14:00 PM »

...
Spell Penetration, Spell Concentration, and their Improved/Greater versions all exist as "Feats" in the PHB as well.  Each campaign setting also includes Feats relative to their niche, such as Ebberon and their Dragonmarks.  "Craft Contingency" is in one of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting books (I can give you a direct source/quote later).
...


I made a mistake there (Spell Mantle and Craft Scepter are out of FRCS).

"Craft Contingency" is found in Complete Arcane p.77/139.
. Caster Level 11th (Minimum) and costly (Base Price = spell level x caster level x 100gp) per spell.
. A creature can have up to its HD in contingent spells cast upon them.
. doesn't occupy a space
. subject to normal Dispel attempts (counts as an "active" spell; does not necessarily trigger the stored spell)
. temporarily suppressed in an antimagic field (like most magic items).

(I can quote it for you if you don't have physical/digital source.)

From a personal perspective, contingent spells are fun but dangerous if not carefully considered.
Spoiler: show

I was in a 15 HD campaign where the player that brought this feat to my attention) crafted 10 spells on himself while reserving 5 "slots" for campaign-specific events.  I asked for a current list of "contingent triggers" made a copy for myself, and returned it to him.  ...One of the triggers was "snap my fingers" and, when he did so in-game, he beheaded a beerwench in front of a dozen patrons (I warned him prior to permitting the action, but he insisted upon this method of "getting the girl's attention").

Gave the players a choice: kill all the witnesses, or GTFO.  As mostly good-aligned characters, they chose to be chased out of the town and branded criminals, bounties placed immediately with the local authorities.  (The player who killed the girl sent 5,000 gp in funeral expenses to the town later with an unsigned apology note).

Ahhhh, good times.
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2014, 07:21:23 PM »

Yeah that feat is utterly overpowered and not what I'm looking for. If you're not aware, Pathfinder already has a Contingency spell;

 Contingency

School evocation; Level sorcerer/wizard 6
CASTING

Casting Time at least 10 minutes; see text
Components V, S, M (quicksilver and an eyelash of a spell-using creature), F (ivory statuette of you worth 1,500 gp)
EFFECT

Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 day/level (D) or until discharged
   
[This content was created for the Pathfinder rules by Paizo Publishing LLC and is part of the Pathfinder RPG product line.]
DESCRIPTION

You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate when casting contingency. The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time. The 10-minute casting time is the minimum total for both castings; if the companion spell has a casting time longer than 10 minutes, use that instead. You must pay any costs associated with the companion spell when you cast contingency.

The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).

The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being "cast" instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when triggered. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to.

You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled.


There's also something about "mythic contingency" but I don't know what that is.

Basically that spell is what I want to base off, it's nice and balanced, I want a second spell that's a 9th level spell called Chain Contingency, works just like the one above but higher level spells and up to three spells.

Spell triggers will work like that as well, there will be three of them, Lesser Spell Trigger (4th level), Spell Trigger (6th level), and Spell Sequencer (8th level), all of them lets you store a number of spells in a trigger activatable by a swift action, whereupon the spells are cast as if they were Quickened Spells, it's like a prep version of Quickened. You can only have one of each of these active, and they can be defensive or offensive spells, Lesser SPell Trigger will let you store up to 2 2nd level spells (such as two magic missiles, protection from evil and mirror image, etc), Spell Trigger will let you store 3 spells up to 4th level (3 fireballs, or Stoneskin, Fireshield, Mirror Image), Spell Sequencer will let you store 3 spells up to 6th level working like the others. Like Contingency there should be expensive material components to set these spells up, and they should be dispellable.

Pathfinder also has Spell Absorbtion and Spell Turning, I want to change those and make Spell Absorbtion work like Spell Turning and automatically absorb spell levels rather than be dependent on counterspelling. I also want a Lesser (5rd level) and greater (9th level) version of spell turning allowing for more spell levels. You can have a Spell Turning and Spell Absorbtion spell both active at once, the higher level spell will take effect first. A Spell Shield is a 5th level spell, it's only purpose is that if the mage is hit by a Dispel Magic, Greater Dispel Magic, or other spells such as Pierce Magic (6th level, targets specific spells without a caster level check and reduces spell resistance) or Mage's Disjunction, it will cause that spell to fail as if counterspelled, at which point the Spell Shield stops working and has to be recast, this is regardless of if it's hit by a 3rd level Dispel Magic or a 9th level Disjunction. A good tactic for this reason is to hit the target first with a Quckened low-level spell like Dispel Magic or Secret Word (4th level, dispels any single spell up to 8th level) simply to kill the spell shield, then hit them with a Greater Dispel Magic or the like.

There will also be some changes to protection spells, a Stoneskin gives DR 30/+3, an adamantine weapon counts as a +3 weapon for this purpose. Greater Stoneskin will be a 6th level spell, it gives DR 40/+4, a magical adamantine weapon will be sufficient for this. Protection from Normal Weapons is a 5th level spell, it lasts for 4 rounds only and makes you utterly immune as if you had infinite DR versus normal weapons. Protection From Magic Weapons is a 6th level spell, it works just the same as Normal (same 4 round duration) but only against magical weapons, you cannot have both active so someone protected from magic weapons will still be able to be damaged by non-magical weapons (although stacking this and Greater Stoneskin or will be a nasty combo, as will casting it if you have damage reduction from another source, but again the low duration keeps it viable). Mantle is a 7th level spell, it's cast as a swift action and lasts for 4 rounds and gives you Damage Reduction 40/+4, Improved Mantle is a 8th level spell, it works like Mantle (swift action, four round duraiton) but gives you damage reducion 50/+5, Absolute Immunity is a 9th level version of these, it gives you DR 100/Artifact, meaning you are immune to any damage at all unless it's an artifact weapon, a weapon of a god, or something of a similar level, otherwise works as same. The main purpose of these spells is to be castable by a mage at the start of combat and give them time to throw up some protections before being cut to ribbons by warrior types. Dispel Magic and Greater DIspel Magic can dispel any of these, while Mage's Disjuction will do it automatically for every protection with no caster level check unless the target has a Spell Shield active. In addition the 5th level Sorcerer/Wizard spell Breach (also available to some others such as the Inquisitor specialization of Champions and certain Cleric domains) will immediately with no caster level check required remove every combat protection the target has of the Abjuration school, again unless the target has a Spell Shield active.

Beyond this I want a spell called a Mythal, it's something new, it pulls a shield over a mage giving them a small (+4 or so) deflection bonus to AC, but also enhances their spells, a Mythal is rooted to the place it was cast so it effectively roots the mage in place if he wants to take advantage of it. Spells cast out of a Mythal has their Save DC increased by +2, the mage has a +2 bonus on caster level checks to penetrate Spell Resistance, and a +2 bonus on Counterspelling attempts. There should also be a greater version of this providing higher bonuses. A mythal can be made permanent, and can be enlarged as well quite a bit.

There's also going to be Ritual magic, these are spells cast as a minimum of 1 minute but usually several hours, it can involve a single mage or multiple (usually one mage and his apprentices, but a cleric and his chanting congregation works as well), during it you can invoke demons or gods and sacrifce gold, precious items, animals or people for greater effect, but in the latter two cases it taints the ritual and turns it into an evil spell, a ritual cast in a place of power such as a ley line or a prepared area gets bonuses as well, and rituals cast at auspicious times like during an eclipse or the like also gets bonuses. With these bonuses you can apply metamagic effects to spells or change spells in various forms, such as making that Mythal spell permanently cover an entire city (several Elven cities are guarded by this) granting the bonus to everyone within, or if you're creating an Undead or Golem you can imbue them with greater effects (spell abilities, damage reduction, turning resitance, etc). Some spells can specifically only be cast as ritual spells, one minor ritual spell for example is a Champion's ability to call a magical mount, this ritual spell generally don't require anything, but if a Paladin type champion has the aid of a high cleric of his faith inside a church for example it will probably result in a better mount, same if a Blackguard performs the spell in a Desecrated holy place that he sacrifices a good being in. Druids are masters of ritual and place magic, they have used it to for example set up tree-gates between focuses of ley lines in various groves letting druids move about freely, and they have used it to set up permanent wards on their forests and warning spells that summons things like elementals if someone intending harm to the forest or the animals living there should enter.
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2014, 08:47:15 PM »

Okay, something about races;

The setting this game will be placed in was in ancient times ruled by Dragon overlords, these were immortal beings of incomprehensible might, god-dragons, that ruled domains the size of countries and played games against each other for the control of resources. The dragons shaped a lot of the world, and also created several of the races.

Humans work as base Pathfinder, they were one of the native intelligent species, and in dragon times were barbaric tribes. Dragons only used them for manual labour, miners and the like and soldiers in their armies, they didn't change them all that much.

Orcs are more similar to the Warcraft orcs than the bestial D&D orcs, resembling if anything Half Orcs in Pathfinder more than normal orcs. They were another native species, but a more magically mallable one. Basically think of the orcs as Neanderthals to the Humans Homo Sapiens. The dragons created other species such as Ogres out of Orcs, but also the Elves, their greatest servants. Stat wise Orcs are similar to Half Orcs, but they have a +2 Strength, -2 Charisma and can apply another +2 bonus to any stat (including strength or charisma). Orc characters have access to a Racial specializaiton they can take with normal specialization points that makes them stronger, bigger and tougher. Due to a war with the "monstrous" races some few hundred years ago the Orcs living in the area the campaign will take place are mostly slaves, not unlike in status what black people were treated like in early America pre Civil War, and are used for manual labour. Some orcs do earn their freedom however, just like slaves in real life. There's a movement among humans and dwarves currently to free the Orc slaves, but the High Elves want nothing to hear of it.

Elves come in two forms, the High Elf and the Wood Elf, both were created out of Orc racial stock and magically altered to perfect them and create a highly magical species. The Elves ancestry background is a mark of shame for them not brough up in civilized society. High Elves were the overseers, the closest companions to the dragons and also the most trusted, these were the ones sent out to rule a dragon's domain in the Overlord's name. The Elves used this flexibility given to them however to learn magic from unknown sources (some say Dragons, some say Demons), and used high level ritual magic to banish the dragons to unknown places, no dragon has been seen in the setting for thousands of years because of this. After the dragons were gone, the High Elves continued in their place as rulers of all the other species, something the other races haven't quite forgiven them for. Stat wise a High Elf resembles a normal Pathfinder elf the closest, their favored class is Wizard always, and they have access to a racial specialization that gives them spell-like abilities, and a permanent Deflection bonus to their AC equal to their Intelligence modifier as long as they have spells available to cast, a High Elf who've spent all his spells (not including Cantrips or Orisons) loses access to this.

Wood Elves were likewise created out of orcs, but the dragons made these to be the gardeners and caretakers of their lands. Today Wood Elves continue in this role, they are the caretakers of the great forests and the majority of druids (and ranger-like Hunters) are drawn from their ranks. Wood Elves have a wisdom bonus instead of intelligence bonus, and an innate ability to speak to animals and spirits. Their favored class is either Druid or Hunter, chosen at character creation. They have access to a race specialization that gives them further druid abilities, such as being able to meld with the ground or trees, and improved tracking and favored environment (forests) bonuses.

Fey are magical beings that showed up a few hundred years ago, no one knows where they came from, including the Fey themselves. Fey resembles a lot of traits in classic European fey and elf legends, highly magical beings often given to miscievous acts, and with a wanderlust and a tendency to bond to people of other species. They do not seem to age once they reach adulthood, and fey have become known to become protectors of a human family for example through generations, with the family leaving out food and gifts for their protectors. Fey start out Small and have inherent spell like abilities, and have access to a racial specialization that makes them Tiny and makes them grow wings. Fey are usually sorcerers, druids, or bards.

Dwarves never had contact with the dragons, they evolved not out of a land-based species that came from aquatic sources, but deep deep in the earth in infinite lightless tunnels of immense pressure out of a peculiar species of worm. Even today dwarves come from hive mothers that lay clutches of eggs rather than be born like mammals. Dwarves made war with goblins, a similarly underground species that evolved out of fungus and with an immense growth rate for centuries, the goblins were their main competitors for underground tunnels. During the war that happened several hundred years ago, the High Elves used powerful ritual magic to force the goblins out of the earth and cut them off from their spawning pools, and also allowed dwarves to live on the surface. Since the war, with large industrious intellects and access to vast material wealth in comparison to what they had to make due with, the dwarves initiated an industrial revolution, creating factories, inventing electricity and steam power as well as gunpowder. Dwarves traded with human settlements and built a rail line wehre locomotives carry resources and workers between dwarven and human cities, and humans work for dwarves in a mutually beneficial relationship. The elves really do not like this development, and tensions have been building between the species, and now the Dwarves look ready to expand further by starting to chop down the ancient forests that the Wood Elves control, which will likely lead to a war. Dwarves have invented Steam Mecha, Revolvers, genades, missile launchers, flamethrowers and lighting packs (like a flame thrower shooting chain ligthining). Dwarves have a constitution and intelligence bonus and a charisma penalty, they have a substantial Spell Resistance (10+ character level) but this cannot be lowered and automatically makes low level magic and things like potions fail on them, even raise dead and resurrection magic has a good chance to fail if used on a dwarf. However dwarves automatically heal one hit point per round, and as a full round action can go into a healing trance that stops poisons and disease from affecting them and where after one hour they get a +10 bonus against a single thing that is affecting them that initially could be resisted by a fortitude or will saving throw, and also heal from things normally only fixable by magic such as negative levels or ability drain. Dwarves pick Fighter or Rogue as their favored class, and they can never take levels in a spell-casting class.

There is a deep version of dwarves as well, the dwarves who elected not to be made capable of walking on the surface, these are the Duergar. Duergar are an evil gray-skinned and hairless version of the dwarves who resent their surface cousins. A duergar cannot live on the surface and takes constitution damage if they come up, wiith their bones and skin cracking, unable to withstand surface conditions. As such they wear containment suits made out of the skin of varous subsurface species when they make raids. Duergar are not available as PCs, but aside from not being able to handle life on the surface has the same stats as normal dwarves. Drow are completely unknown, if they exist they haven't ever been encountered, not even by the dwarves.

Halflings, Gnomes and Half Elves and Half Orcs are not available in this setting, Halflings and Gnomes are replaced by the Fey species, while if a elf and a human should mate, the child will always be the mother's species, but will have access to the racial specializaitions of both species, same with elves and orcs or orcs and humans. Dwarves and Fey have a different genetic make-up than these three races, and cannot mate with them, only their own species.
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Sacremas

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Re: Pathfinder interest?
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2014, 01:26:13 AM »

Note that I'm considering abandoning the specialization concepts and instead use normal PrCs. In that case I'll do as Monte Cook did with Arcana Evolved and have "High Elf" or "Orc" as classes as well for evolving your base race's abilities. In the case of the Hunter, at 4th level they'd simply pick between one of the specializaitons listed, with the default being that they'd get a Ranger's spellcasting abilities. They would only be able to make this choice once.

However if I were to do that I'd pay a lot of attention to what kind of PrCs were selected, I'd also probably require training from another member of that PrC, and also likewise tie all PrCs to a specific order of warriors or mages for example that you'd likely have to become a member of, rather than allow everyone to just add PrC levels as they wished. If you became an Arcane Archer for example it should have as much effect on your character as the fact that you started out as an Elf.
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